"rin" honorific?

[Gordon Freeman]

Is there such an honorific or suffix for a name as "rin" beyond random
cuteness?

I just saw it claimed that "rin" is a cute form of "chan", but AFAIK that
would be "chin". I thought changing a name to end in -rin (the examples
given being Kaori -> Kaorin and Kimura -> Kimurin was just a cutesy way of
talking, not any kind of actual honorific.

[pef23]

Post by Gordon Freeman
Is there such an honorific or suffix for a name as "rin" beyond random
cuteness?
I just saw it claimed that "rin" is a cute form of "chan", but AFAIK that
would be "chin". I thought changing a name to end in -rin (the examples
given being Kaori -> Kaorin and Kimura -> Kimurin was just a cutesy way of
talking, not any kind of actual honorific.
--
______________________________________________
Today is the first day of the rest of the mess

To start with I have say that I don't know the answer so you can stop
reading now if you think I am going to provide some great info :)
I was fascinated with your question cos I have always just assumed it
was the honourific for a princess but now you got me thinking. Wiki
just lists it as a pet name suffix and no other info is given.
I went through a few dictionaries but they don't even list the pet
name usage.
If I was to make a wild guess I might say that it has something to do
with the counter for flowers (just thinking of other proverb type
things in Japanese that refer to women as flowers - ryoute ni hana ga
iru, etc.). Kanji with an on-yomi of "rin" do seem to deal with
royalty sometimes but no direct relationship.
Anywho, I also look forward to someone giving a conclusive answer
here. If nothing good comes up in the next few days I will ask about
at Uni.
Chur,
Stefan.

[Gordon Freeman]

Post by pef23

Post by Gordon Freeman
Is there such an honorific or suffix for a name as "rin" beyond random
cuteness?

I was fascinated with your question cos I have always just assumed it
was the honourific for a princess but now you got me thinking. Wiki
just lists it as a pet name suffix and no other info is given.

I am a great fan of Wikipedia, but the few articles on Japanese usage that
I have seen tend to look rather dubious, reading as if they were mainly
written by people whose knowledge of Japanese has been gleaned largely from
watching anime fansubs.

As for the connection of "rin" with princesses, I can't find any kanji
connected with royalty which has that reading, which kanji did you have in
mind? The only titles I have heard used with princesses are the obvious
ones, "hime" and "hime-sama".

[pef23]

Post by Gordon Freeman

Post by pef23

Post by Gordon Freeman
Is there such an honorific or suffix for a name as "rin" beyond random
cuteness?

I was fascinated with your question cos I have always just assumed it
was the honourific for a princess but now you got me thinking. Wiki
just lists it as a pet name suffix and no other info is given.

I am a great fan of Wikipedia, but the few articles on Japanese usage that
I have seen tend to look rather dubious, reading as if they were mainly
written by people whose knowledge of Japanese has been gleaned largely from
watching anime fansubs.
As for the connection of "rin" with princesses, I can't find any kanji
connected with royalty which has that reading, which kanji did you have in
mind? The only titles I have heard used with princesses are the obvious
ones, "hime" and "hime-sama".

...

The Wiki site I was refering to was a Japanese language one so it was
probably correct in terms of usage, but I think there is scope for
investigating its derivations a little more closely.

The RIN kanji that came to mind was (thread; silk cord) as in:
(rinji - imperial order) (ringen - emperor's word; imperial
mandate). [sorry, I'm not sure if the kanji will make it through here
- I've had encoding problems] But now I think about it more it seems
like too much of a stretch to try and make any connections here.

Stefan

[B. Ito]

Post by Gordon Freeman
Is there such an honorific or suffix for a name as "rin" beyond random
cuteness?
I just saw it claimed that "rin" is a cute form of "chan", but AFAIK that
would be "chin". I thought changing a name to end in -rin (the examples
given being Kaori -> Kaorin and Kimura -> Kimurin was just a cutesy way of
talking, not any kind of actual honorific.
--
______________________________________________
Today is the first day of the rest of the mess

--------------------------------------------------------
I didn't think to the point that -rin is used as some honorific usage.
But now I think you can take it so.

In summary, I think, if you put certain suffixes like -chan, -rin, -tan,
-san, -kun, -don and many others, they would sound 'friendly' or you may
call it honorific.

Whereas, other suffixes like -bee, -me, -yarou, -(no)gaki, -(no)bakatare,
-(no)kusotare, -(no)tsurayogoshi etc. are scorful suffixes.

----------------------------
B. Ito

[Gordon Freeman]

Post by B. Ito
I didn't think to the point that -rin is used as some honorific usage.
But now I think you can take it so.
In summary, I think, if you put certain suffixes like -chan, -rin, -tan,
-san, -kun, -don and many others, they would sound 'friendly' or you may
call it honorific.
Whereas, other suffixes like -bee, -me, -yarou, -(no)gaki, -(no)bakatare,
-(no)kusotare, -(no)tsurayogoshi etc. are scorful suffixes.

So would it be true to say that there is no clear boundary between
honorifics and colloquial expressions? It seems that people might replace a
normal honorific with almost any expression, and that some of these
expressions become so popular that they attain the status of an honorific.
For instance I have often heard people use "-nobaka", in English this is
usually translated as "you idiot", but from your list it would appear that
it is actually considered a sort of scornful honorofic by Japanese people.

[B. Ito]

Post by Gordon Freeman

Post by B. Ito
I didn't think to the point that -rin is used as some honorific usage.
But now I think you can take it so.
In summary, I think, if you put certain suffixes like -chan, -rin, -tan,
-san, -kun, -don and many others, they would sound 'friendly' or you may
call it honorific.
Whereas, other suffixes like -bee, -me, -yarou, -(no)gaki, -(no)bakatare,
-(no)kusotare, -(no)tsurayogoshi etc. are scorful suffixes.

So would it be true to say that there is no clear boundary between
honorifics and colloquial expressions? It seems that people might replace a
normal honorific with almost any expression, and that some of these
expressions become so popular that they attain the status of an honorific.
For instance I have often heard people use "-nobaka", in English this is
usually translated as "you idiot", but from your list it would appear that
it is actually considered a sort of scornful honorofic by Japanese people.

...

---------------------------------------------------------------
I don't know if the English "You idiot!" may mean two ways, good and bad
(scornful or honorific), but the Japanese '-nobaka' would mean two ways,
for example "-nobaka, I love you." and "-nobaka, I hate you."

"-nobakatare (or -nokusotare, tsurayogoshi, -nohajishirazu, -noyakkaimono,
-nobakamono etc.) is always followed by "......., I hate you."


Note: I should add that '-bee' may be special, because the suffix may be
used as a formal name of person in old style like 'Yasubee' (or Tokubee,
Masabee, Seebee etc.). As you know there are Nonbee and Sukebe(e),which
could be scornful or friendly address.

--------------------------------------
B. Ito

[pef23]

Post by Gordon Freeman
Is there such an honorific or suffix for a name as "rin" beyond random
cuteness?
I just saw it claimed that "rin" is a cute form of "chan", but AFAIK that
would be "chin". I thought changing a name to end in -rin (the examples
given being Kaori -> Kaorin and Kimura -> Kimurin was just a cutesy way of
talking, not any kind of actual honorific.
--
______________________________________________
Today is the first day of the rest of the mess

I did a bit of asking around at Uni and none of the "experts" seem to
know. In their opinion it is just slang that was started by a female
singer sometime around the early eighties - but don't quote me on
that.
Also the yearly Gendaiyogo dictionaries I looked at didn't have any
entries for that. I think the best way to find out would be to look
through Gendaiyogo's from the eighties.

Chur,

Stefan

[massangeana]

Post by Gordon Freeman
Is there such an honorific or suffix for a name as "rin" beyond random
cuteness?
I just saw it claimed that "rin" is a cute form of "chan", but AFAIK that
would be "chin". I thought changing a name to end in -rin (the examples
given being Kaori -> Kaorin and Kimura -> Kimurin was just a cutesy way of
talking, not any kind of actual honorific.

This article says that "-rin" first appeared in 1980s
and possibly comes from English (CatheRINE or MariLYN).

http://kotobakai.seesaa.net/article/8173861.html

Post by Gordon Freeman
--
______________________________________________
Today is the first day of the rest of the mess

massangeana

[chance]

Post by massangeana
This article says that "-rin" first appeared in 1980s
and possibly comes from English (CatheRINE or MariLYN).
http://kotobakai.seesaa.net/article/8173861.html

At last, you shed light on what this thread has been all about.
I hadn't had any clue as to what they had been talking about
all along.

Thanks.

[Ben Finney]

Post by Gordon Freeman
Is there such an honorific or suffix for a name as "rin" beyond
random cuteness?

My local NSoJ tells me that's about the limit of it, with no
particular honorific meaning.

I wasn't able to get much of a definite pattern beyond "that sounds
right" or "that doesn't". Best estimate: It only works if it would be
euphonic to add or change the final syllable to become "-rin"; and
it's best if the name is already truncated in a cute way in a similar
way as when one would add "-chan".

So "akiko" can already become "akko", and this can become "akkorin";
or your example of "kimura" becomes "kimurin". But it wouldn't work
for "asuka"; apparently neither "asurin" nor "asukarin" are acceptable
usages.

[Gordon Freeman]

Post by Ben Finney

Post by Gordon Freeman
Is there such an honorific or suffix for a name as "rin" beyond random
cuteness?

My local NSoJ tells me that's about the limit of it, with no
particular honorific meaning.
I wasn't able to get much of a definite pattern beyond "that sounds
right" or "that doesn't". Best estimate: It only works if it would be
euphonic to add or change the final syllable to become "-rin";

Euphonic: that's a good word, I think "euphonic suffix" would be a good
definition that sums up my own feelings about this too.